tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post2796230369428333180..comments2023-11-02T01:20:32.436-07:00Comments on The Forbidden Gospels: SBL Memories 1: The Judas SectionApril DeConickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06616757055618151612noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-10441455972290483832008-12-07T10:10:00.000-08:002008-12-07T10:10:00.000-08:00I have said it before and I will say it again: Sc...I have said it before and I will say it again: Scholars keep reading negativity into the Gospels texts about Judas even where it does not exist. All the Gospels, but especially Mark, tell a highly ambiguous story. The clear data making Judas out to be a traitor is missing. Scholars keep assuming it, but assumption is not proof. The straight fact is the ambiguity and no one will admit it. Making Judas into a traitor as scholars have done does not prove he was one. Rather the opposite. The fact that scholars have to alter what the texts say is a better sign that Judas was in all likelihood innocent. If scholars do not stick to the actual details, there is no hope of recovering history, but then that is probably the point of their rewriting of the Gospels.<BR/><BR/>Leon ZitzerLeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03309421171161805736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-72137887094879688672008-12-02T18:42:00.000-08:002008-12-02T18:42:00.000-08:00In Birger A. Pearson's Ancient Gnosticism, 2007, p...In Birger A. Pearson's Ancient Gnosticism, 2007, pgs. 47-48 there is mentioned a gem inscribed on one side with "a lion-headed deity . . . with the names 'Ialdabaoth' and 'Aariel' on the other side." Fig. 2.2 diagrams both sides of this Gnostic gem.José Solanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04589289554046198929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-4964422966035373752008-12-02T18:17:00.000-08:002008-12-02T18:17:00.000-08:00It looks as if the URL addresses do not fit in the...It looks as if the URL addresses do not fit in the comment section but Google "gnostic inscribed gem" and you'll come across many sites.José Solanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04589289554046198929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-2028947966820759272008-12-02T18:13:00.000-08:002008-12-02T18:13:00.000-08:00In the attempt to answer some of my own questions ...In the attempt to answer some of my own questions I came across the following: http://www.sacred-texts.com/gno/gar/gar42.htm — http://www.jjkent.com/articles/gnostic-amulets-abrasax.htm<BR/><BR/>And Christie's has inscribed Gnostic gems for sale: http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=1300621<BR/><BR/>There is more.José Solanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04589289554046198929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-14466821410810567732008-12-02T16:25:00.000-08:002008-12-02T16:25:00.000-08:00Sorry Frank but my comment should refer to the "Ac...Sorry Frank but my comment should refer to the "Acts of Thomas" and not "The Acts of the Apostles" as I by habit wrote.José Solanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04589289554046198929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-75520111605123408202008-12-02T16:17:00.000-08:002008-12-02T16:17:00.000-08:00Hi Frank,The sculpture of the Mithraic god Aion th...Hi Frank,<BR/><BR/>The sculpture of the Mithraic god Aion that I referenced is the same as the one shown on the frontispiece of C. G. Jung's book Aion, Researches into the Phenomenology of the Self. The long URL I gave was cut off but you can Google The Psychology of Evil by Stephen Diamond and find the photo among others in the article. It is similar to Fig. 5 in "The Eighth Gate" of Ulaney that you reference, replete with intertwining serpent, nude figure with astrological signs, lion's head and wings and standing on a sphere. <BR/><BR/>As you know the quotation from The Acts of the Apostles "I am kin to him that is outside the ocean, whose tail is set in his own mouth" is an image of the uroborus which can be a symbol of the primal undifferentiated state of a person or of humanity itself. <BR/><BR/>These are all very fascinating universal symbols but it is interesting that this symbolism was particularly active in this period of the second and third centuries when the Gospel of Judas may have also been in vogue in certain circles. Indeed, this is the period of the great gnostic proliferation that challenged orthodox Christian communities. <BR/><BR/>The gem that Dr. DeConick mentions, and that drew gasps from her audience, is certainly something many would like to see and learn more about. The association of the name of Judas with the leontocephalous, Abrasax (Abraxas), Ialdabaoth, etc. is astoundingly compelling. I fear becoming overly excited in seeing this as a sort of a small Rosetta stone of this era by connecting symbols of the time. <BR/><BR/>Now, Dr. DeConick, you mention that the "astral god goes by various names on these gems." Are there more gems available from this period with inscriptions on them? As my interest is so piqued can you tell us a little more about this gem? What kind of gem is it? What is the size and color? Was it on a ring or just carried around? Is it translucent? How was the inscription written? And as NT Wrong asks, "How is the name Judas spelled" and in what language?<BR/><BR/>There will no doubt be many more questions.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for this most intriguing post.José Solanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04589289554046198929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-90159749558267632242008-12-02T15:41:00.000-08:002008-12-02T15:41:00.000-08:00Dr. DeconickAlas the original National Geographic ...Dr. Deconick<BR/><BR/>Alas the original National Geographic translation of the Gospel of Judas has now made it into Sunday School material. In the lesson book for this Sunday it mentions the Gospel of Judas and says Judas is the hero. Don't worry, I intend to disabuse my students of the notion and explain, briefly, the controversy.Pastor Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10510081361292855641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-4685301188686124122008-12-02T13:44:00.000-08:002008-12-02T13:44:00.000-08:00Hi April,I am not aware of any hard evidence that ...Hi April,<BR/><BR/>I am not aware of any hard evidence that Marcion used Luke prior to 130. I happen to agree with MacDonald that Luke is relatively late. I would estimate Luke at around 130. I don't see any clear evidence of Luke prior to Justin and 2 Clement (and Marcion, but post 130). Is there some evidence that I am unaware of?<BR/><BR/>RichardRichard Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07240798559888896927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-18380891637153915862008-12-02T07:53:00.000-08:002008-12-02T07:53:00.000-08:00Dear Mr. Solano:I could not access the web-site yo...Dear Mr. Solano:<BR/>I could not access the web-site you list.<BR/>A good introduction to the Mithraic lion-headed deity is, "The Eighth Gate: The Mithraic Lion-Headed Figure<BR/>and the Platonic World-Soul", by David Ulansey. It is found here:<BR/><BR/>http://www.well.com/~davidu/eighthgate.html<BR/><BR/>Those who are interested in the Thomas tradition will find these two paragraphs from it of particular interest:<BR/>Our discovery of the leontocephaline's connection with the boundary of the cosmic sphere provides an obvious answer to this question, for of course the most important function of Oceanus in antiquity was as a symbol of the outermost circular boundary of the world.[26] The fact that both the leontocephaline and Oceanus are identically entwined by a serpent, therefore, makes perfect sense: the serpent around each of them symbolizes their roles as ultimate boundaries. And, conversely, the fact that in Mithraic iconography Oceanus-- the boundary of the world-- is entwined by a serpent provides remarkable support for my claim that the serpent-entwined leontocephaline also symbolizes the cosmic boundary-- and hence the Platonic World-Soul-- as indicated by the Barberini painting.<BR/><BR/>One last piece of evidence in this connection is worth noting. In the Acts of Thomas, the same text that includes the famous Gnostic Hymn of the Pearl, the apostle Thomas is confronted by a serpent. The serpent speaks to him, and at one point says, "I am son of him who girds the sphere about; and I am kinsman of him who is outside the ocean, whose tail is set in his own mouth."[27] Here, exactly as in the Mithraic evidence, we find an enclosing serpent related simultaneously to the world-containing ocean and to the boundary of the cosmic sphere.Frank McCoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16977985447972987579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-72039161423581382352008-12-01T22:43:00.000-08:002008-12-01T22:43:00.000-08:00Mithraic god Aion, Roman, 2nd-3rd century, Museo P...Mithraic god Aion, Roman, 2nd-3rd century, Museo Profano, Vatican. See <BR/>http://www.depth-psychotherapy-network.com/Professional_Section/Professional_Articles/The_Psychology_of_Evil_by_Stephen_Diamond/aion2.jpgJosé Solanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04589289554046198929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-75227374308383095612008-12-01T21:50:00.000-08:002008-12-01T21:50:00.000-08:00Fascinating. How is the name Judas spelled on the ...Fascinating. How is the name Judas spelled on the gem, April?N T Wronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13128282430404746717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-86136856360069634672008-12-01T21:14:00.000-08:002008-12-01T21:14:00.000-08:00You state, "First, I discovered that the portraits...You state, "First, I discovered that the portraits of the lion-headed serpent Ialdabaoth were largely influenced by a popular decan god in Greco-Egyptian magic and astrology. His name was Chnoubis and in the Hellenistic lists of 36 decans he appears as the 13th! I need to say no more."<BR/>I would be interested in knowing more about the Hellenistic lists of 36 Decan gods. E. A. Wallace Budge's, The Gods of the Egyptians (Vol 2, pp. 304-310) indicates 37 Dekan gods. The list he gives is presumably pre-Ptolemaic, although he does list some Ptolemaic-time variants--none of which is Chnoubis. <BR/>I also wonder if, lurking in the background of Ialdabaoth and this Chnoubis is a Mithraic lion-headed divinity, sometimes identified with Chronos, Aion or Saturn, who has a snake coiled around him. <BR/>Is Ialdabaoth the same the same being as Yaltabaoth in the Apocryphon of John--who, in 10:11, is said to be a "lion headed serpent (Nag Hammadi)" or to have "the face of a serpent and the face of a lion (Berlin Codex)"? <BR/>The reason I ask is that Yaltabaoth appears to be modelled after this Mithraic deity. In the Mysteries of Mithra (p. 105), Franz Cumont thusly describes a statue of it, "This leontocephalous figure is entirely nude, the body being entwined six times by a serpent, the head of which rests on the head of the skull." So, with two heads, one of a serpent and one of a lion, and with a body wrapped by a serpent, it sure sounds like Yaltabaoth. <BR/>Again, in 11:4, this is said about Yaltabaoth, "He became strong and created for himself other aeons with a flame of luminous fire which (still) exists." This association of Yaltabaoth with a flame of fire mimics the association of the Mithraic deity with a flame of fire. So, in the Sacred Books of the Egyptian Gnostics (p. 257), Jean Doresse states, "In a similar fashion, the monstrous lion-headed statue of the Mithraic Aion, which might have looked comical in the light of day, was revealed only in the gloom of a cell, where the worshipper had but a glimpse of it--in the lurid glimmer of flames made to issue from its jaws of stone..." <BR/>In any event, I'm looking forward to the revised edition of your book. I haven't bought your original offering, but this revised edition sounds too good to pass up.Frank McCoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16977985447972987579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-61480306675761994052008-12-01T12:54:00.000-08:002008-12-01T12:54:00.000-08:00Sounds like an interesting session. I seem to rec...Sounds like an interesting session. I seem to recall that Paula Fredriksen also maintained that Jesus was executed for sedition, making a connection between this fact and the fact that the apostles were not arrested. <BR/><BR/>So no one talked about the literary line of succession between the Judas Gospel and modern interpretations such as _The Last Temptation of Christ_ or "Jesus Christ Superstar?"Ralph Hitchenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07405787771198956545noreply@blogger.com