tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post3792526257180465340..comments2023-11-02T01:20:32.436-07:00Comments on The Forbidden Gospels: The fresco is in St. Jacobus, UrschallingApril DeConickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06616757055618151612noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-62528687699318906302013-05-27T09:10:54.350-07:002013-05-27T09:10:54.350-07:00(1)I understand that the frescos were plastered ov...(1)I understand that the frescos were plastered over rather than just painted over.<br />(2) Wikipedia dates the foundation of the church to approximately 1100, which would make an earlier date for the frescos problematic!<br />(3) The cruciform halo(or trinitarian halo, since it is only used to signify one of the trinity) clearly present and divided among the three figures makes it clear that the trinity is depicted. The visitors to Abraham would be unlikely to get any halo at all as Old Testament figures seldom(/never)get even a simple halo.[Cruciform halos are rare in early Christian only becoming the norm later than the Twelfth Century] <br />(4) Proverbs 8 where Wisdom is a ´she´ who was there when God "set the heavens in their place" also provides an Old Testament picture which can identify with the Holy Spirit.Square Canonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07773318856441766537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-50537117823151973642009-03-27T15:54:00.000-07:002009-03-27T15:54:00.000-07:00He must have missed the vulva.He must have missed the vulva.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13226634366709293918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-78572271361290178222009-03-27T14:44:00.000-07:002009-03-27T14:44:00.000-07:00Robert Murray in his study of Syriac Christianity ...Robert Murray in his study of Syriac Christianity <B>Symbols of Church and Kingdom</B> has an interesting discussion on the tradition of the Holy Spirit as Mother. On page 320 he says <I>The curious Trinity fresco in Urschalling, Bavaria, in which the Spirit might seem feminine, is of the three ages of man</I>. <BR/><BR/>IE Robert Murray appears to regard the central figure of the three as juvenile rather than feminine.Andrew Criddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10529501480944256402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-13547238636232700442009-03-27T05:52:00.000-07:002009-03-27T05:52:00.000-07:00One important early father to regard the Holy Spir...One important early father to regard the Holy Spirit as Feminine (and Maternal) is the 4th century Latin Platonist Marius VictorinusAndrew Criddlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10529501480944256402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-59183198614796674092009-03-26T09:17:00.000-07:002009-03-26T09:17:00.000-07:00It should not be surprising that some artists have...It should not be surprising that some artists have depicted the Holy Spirit as a woman. The Holy Spirit has been frequently symbolized as a dove but that does not mean that He is a dove or anything like that. There have been numerous times in which the Holy Spirit was actually symbolized as Jesus Christ and the Father has been symbolized also as Jesus Christ. The wind, oil, water, etc. also serve as symbols of the Holy Spirit.<BR/><BR/>The Godhead has also been referred to as a Quaternity to include within it the feminine. The Assumption of Mary has been used as evidence of woman in the Godhead.José Solanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04589289554046198929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-70200051502551397092009-03-25T21:02:00.000-07:002009-03-25T21:02:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.John Noycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966033772994457851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-45587203089042232702009-03-25T18:22:00.000-07:002009-03-25T18:22:00.000-07:00Using the meeting at Mamre as an icon for the Trin...Using the meeting at Mamre as an icon for the Trinity is very common in Russian art. Of course in the Russian icons all three persons of the Trinity have beards . . .Pastor Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10510081361292855641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-50377617599283495832009-03-25T15:39:00.000-07:002009-03-25T15:39:00.000-07:00Schipflinger has several chapters on the art of th...Schipflinger has several chapters on the art of the European middle ages depicting the maternal image of the Divine.<BR/>Reading his book inspired me to research, write (and complete!) my MA thesis on the visions and prophecies of the Goddess in the western tradition. This is now available as 'The Wisdom Tradition' through lulu.com:<BR/>http://stores.lulu.com/sahajhistJohn Noycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966033772994457851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-49509965642741784542009-03-25T14:45:00.000-07:002009-03-25T14:45:00.000-07:00There is a discussion of this image in Thomas Schi...There is a discussion of this image in Thomas Schipflinger, Sophia-Maria (English trans: Samuel Weiser, Inc, USA, 1998), p391, including this:<BR/>"It is an interesting and seldom-encountered portrayal of the Trinity, which unmistakably presents the Holy Spirit as a woman, indicating that even in those times conceiving of the Holy Spirit as the Trinity's maternal principle was not unknown."<BR/>Schipflinger dates the image to "the beginning of the ninth century."John Noycehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966033772994457851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-43993254507079921282009-03-25T11:56:00.000-07:002009-03-25T11:56:00.000-07:00We can hardly wait for your new book, Sex and the ...We can hardly wait for your new book, <I>Sex and the Serpent: Why the Sexual Conflicts of the Early Church Still Matter</I>!<BR/><BR/>Some of us think that Aristotle may have influenced the attempt to reverse or to erase the Greek association of divine breath / godly spirit with mothers. He propagated the idea that male "seed" (or semen) was a combination of water and πνεῦμα (or "breath / spirit"), which he thought was the source of heat and therefore life of the soul. The female, according to Aristotle, did not have this seed, did not have this "hot living air plus water" combination. In Aristotle's view, the male had to give the female "soul" by his movements, his form, and his seed. The woman is the passive recipient; and even the embryo depends on the fathering male, according to this "science." Aristotle also wrote, in the same treatise, that females are botched or mutilated males, and the blame for all deformed babies goes to the mother, in these cases bad recipients of the <I>pneuma</I> containing seed. This supposed "objectivity" is all very well documented in Aristotle’s treatise the <I>Generation of Animals</I> (see 2.2, 2.3, 2.6, 3.11).<BR/><BR/>But before Aristotle was a different view. Euripides, for example, has Hippolytus, the protagonist of one of his plays, address the virgin goddess Artemis. She not only possesses but also is her own πνεῦμα (<I>pneuma)</I> -- the very thing which this male does not have; (”Hippolytus,” lines 1390-93):<BR/><BR/>ἔα·<BR/>ὦ θεῖον ὀδμῆς πνεῦμα· καὶ γὰρ ἐν κακοῖς<BR/>ὢν ᾐσθόμην σου κἀνεκουφίσθην δέμας·<BR/>ἔστ’ ἐν τόποισι τοισίδ’ Ἄρτεμις θεά.<BR/><BR/>"But what is this? <BR/>O breath of divine fragrance! Though I am in misfortune <BR/>I sense you and my body’s pain is lightened. <BR/>The goddess Artemis is in this place!"J. K. Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07600312868663460988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6536854065433425156.post-12603089551153818382009-03-25T11:36:00.000-07:002009-03-25T11:36:00.000-07:00The Lord appeared to Abraham by the oaks of Mamre,...<I>The Lord appeared to Abraham by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the entrance of his tent in the heat of the day. 2He looked up and saw three <B>men</B> standing near him.</I> <BR/><BR/>So, that doesn't really work, either, does it?<BR/><BR/>Thanks for this. Gorgeous fresco!<BR/><BR/>Pax, C.Ceciliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10812791378130572065noreply@blogger.com